Evolved Living Podcast

Weaving the Threads of Our Occupational Histories: An Intergenerational Conversation with the Jarvis Family

February 27, 2024 Season 1 Episode 18
Weaving the Threads of Our Occupational Histories: An Intergenerational Conversation with the Jarvis Family
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Evolved Living Podcast
Weaving the Threads of Our Occupational Histories: An Intergenerational Conversation with the Jarvis Family
Feb 27, 2024 Season 1 Episode 18

Learn essentials to develop your own intergenerational Occupational Profile Informed by Occupational Science Here:


Dr. Josie Jarvis sits down with her parents, Julie and Wade Jarvis, to learn about their occupational histories and how their experiences have shaped Josie's own occupational path. Through conversation, they work to understand the threads that connect their lives across generations and cultural contexts.

The discussion delves into textile manufacturing traditions in the family, gender roles and expectations through the decades, and how cultural roots in Iceland continue to influence identity. They also reflect on career influences, economic opportunities, and navigating norms within the Mormon church.

Woven throughout are reflections on the power of quilting and fiber arts as artifacts preserving informal histories. Listeners are invited to gain insight into constructing their own intergenerational occupational profiles through family stories. This intimate dialogue models how deepening cultural understanding can evolve across the generations.


"We're all more connected than we realize... especially through forces of occupation."

"To move is about the only way that you can write your own story."

"I think it's been occupationally helpful to me that I've had role models... women that have broken with some traditions."

"There were just some people [in Utah] that were [racist], but it didn't feel like all people were that."

"Everything to me from as long as I can remember was I wanted to be able to fix things... those were very appreciated skills."

"There really always will always have to be some kind of a sewing machine because unless we stop wearing clothes... they can never make something that's just all-in-one piece that is a garment."

"We're like such an honestly privileged cohort... we're holding these things [crafts] but it’s interesting... our ancestors cultivated that they had to do out of scarcity."

"Quilting is one of the most embedded artifacts of informal publishing in United States history."

"Your parents made a foundation for me to come into this world."

"Even if you do look at things you don't like... find something unique... that you can be proud."

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Free Occupational Science 101 Guidebook
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Show Notes Transcript

Learn essentials to develop your own intergenerational Occupational Profile Informed by Occupational Science Here:


Dr. Josie Jarvis sits down with her parents, Julie and Wade Jarvis, to learn about their occupational histories and how their experiences have shaped Josie's own occupational path. Through conversation, they work to understand the threads that connect their lives across generations and cultural contexts.

The discussion delves into textile manufacturing traditions in the family, gender roles and expectations through the decades, and how cultural roots in Iceland continue to influence identity. They also reflect on career influences, economic opportunities, and navigating norms within the Mormon church.

Woven throughout are reflections on the power of quilting and fiber arts as artifacts preserving informal histories. Listeners are invited to gain insight into constructing their own intergenerational occupational profiles through family stories. This intimate dialogue models how deepening cultural understanding can evolve across the generations.


"We're all more connected than we realize... especially through forces of occupation."

"To move is about the only way that you can write your own story."

"I think it's been occupationally helpful to me that I've had role models... women that have broken with some traditions."

"There were just some people [in Utah] that were [racist], but it didn't feel like all people were that."

"Everything to me from as long as I can remember was I wanted to be able to fix things... those were very appreciated skills."

"There really always will always have to be some kind of a sewing machine because unless we stop wearing clothes... they can never make something that's just all-in-one piece that is a garment."

"We're like such an honestly privileged cohort... we're holding these things [crafts] but it’s interesting... our ancestors cultivated that they had to do out of scarcity."

"Quilting is one of the most embedded artifacts of informal publishing in United States history."

"Your parents made a foundation for me to come into this world."

"Even if you do look at things you don't like... find something unique... that you can be proud."

Evolved Living Network Instragram @EvolvedLivingNetwork
Free Occupational Science 101 Guidebook
OS Empowered OT Facebook Group
Link to Full Podcast Disclaimer

Parent Interview

[00:00:00] Josie Jarvis: Hello everybody, welcome to the Evolve Living podcast. I am doing an experiment and inviting both my parents on as part of the textbook chapter that we've been talking about.

[00:00:12] Josie Jarvis: What I'm wanting to do is role model to you some steps that maybe you can feel inclined to take and connecting with your own family and building your understanding of your own intergenerational occupational profile. And this is a journey that I've been on the, over the last three and a half years.

[00:00:31] Josie Jarvis: of getting to understand who I am occupationally and that has been connected to also getting to understand who my parents are as occupational beings, who their parents were as occupational beings, and understanding some of those patterns that show up over time and also seeing where we all sit in the broader context of the United States history or if you're in a different country of origin.

[00:00:58] Josie Jarvis: What I found is it's so [00:01:00] fascinating how we're all connected between time and space. And I have some memories from my childhood. And while I'm writing this chapter, I realized I need to fact check this. with my parents and get their perspective on events. And so if we decide to use this, it will maybe help be a role model guide of questions that you can ask your own family, but can help you understand some of my occupational profile that's also included in the supplementary resources for you as students and possibly as podcast listeners.

[00:01:36] Josie Jarvis: Mom and dad. Do you mind introducing yourselves to the listeners and let them know where you were born and when? And I then will go into asking some questions about some of those pre verbal memories that I don't fully have from being in Wyoming. [00:02:00] So maybe you can offer to them not only where you were born, but how it was that you found yourselves in Wyoming.

[00:02:08] Julie Jarvis: You go first, Wade. You're the 

[00:02:10] Wade Jarvis: I'm Wade Jarvis. I was born in Payson, Utah in 

[00:02:13] Julie Jarvis: 1959. And I'm Julie Jarvis, maiden name is Otto born in Flint, Michigan in 

[00:02:22] Josie Jarvis: 1963. Very good. And so you, mom, I know moved from Flint, Michigan to a variety of different places. We have that in common that we both moved around quite a bit early in our early lives, right?

[00:02:39] Josie Jarvis: What are some of the places that you lived in after Flint? . 

[00:02:43] Julie Jarvis: I was born in Flint and believe that we lived there until I was in through kindergarten, and then we moved or no, I think we, we lived in Flint till I was pre kindergarten, and then we [00:03:00] moved to St.

[00:03:00] Julie Jarvis: Louis, Missouri for a year or so, and then. We moved back to Flint for a little bit of time. And then for first and second grade, we moved to a island in the Marshall islands called Kwajalein. My dad was a computer scientist and had lots of different contracts at different companies and businesses.

[00:03:27] Julie Jarvis: In Flint, he worked for several of the motor. Companies and I'm not sure Buick, I think, but I'm not sure which others. And then in St. Louis, he worked for McDonnell Douglas Airline. I think computerizing their assembly lines. And then we lived in Kwajalein where he was, worked for a company that contracted with the military because they had a missile base there.

[00:03:59] Julie Jarvis: [00:04:00] And then, after second grade, we moved to, back to Michigan, where we lived in upstate Michigan for maybe a year, maybe approximately a school year, and then we moved to Farmington, Utah, where I did most of my growing up from 3rd grade and then with the exception of a year during 5th grade, we lived in Richmond, Virginia, and then came back to the same place in Farmington until I was through high school.

[00:04:41] Julie Jarvis: So I was in Farmington, Utah. Most of the time. 

[00:04:45] Josie Jarvis: There you go. Remember when your parents converted 

[00:04:50] Julie Jarvis: to more. I was 3 years old. So that would have been before we moved to Saint Louis, Missouri. Very [00:05:00] cool. 

[00:05:00] Wade Jarvis: So for if you're having other people listening to this, they converted to the 

[00:05:05] Josie Jarvis: LDS religion. Yeah, the Latter Day Saints, because that's the now endorsed.

[00:05:10] Josie Jarvis: It's no longer mainstream approved to 

[00:05:13] Julie Jarvis: what we like to call it moment. 

[00:05:15] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, we'll call it 

[00:05:16] Julie Jarvis: Mormon for our support. We don't care what they, 

[00:05:20] Josie Jarvis: what they like to hear. But dad, you, I don't know if you ever did grow out Mormon or if you had, if you, it sounded like you almost. join later on, but as is been profiled in other episodes of the podcast, you're my connection line to the settlement of the Timpanogos territory in Spanish Fork.

[00:05:41] Josie Jarvis: So unlike mom that moved around quite a bit in her early life you had some movement, but you, I think grew up within Utah most of the time 

[00:05:50] Wade Jarvis: Dan? Yeah. And it's fair to say I was born Mormon. I just, okay, I was just born to parents that didn't take it super [00:06:00] seriously. But my great grandfather settled Leland from orders of Brigham Young, so that, it's been in the family for a long 

[00:06:11] Josie Jarvis: time.

[00:06:11] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, we go back to the 1850s in terms of, I think, Kate B. Carter that I just read cited Vignes settlement around 1859 was the last that I saw in kind of the blogs that I could track that were having some conversation about it. So just like being of Icelandic descent, we're really lucky that so much of even just having affiliation with the LDS Church in general, I think on both sides of our family are quite lucky to have it.

[00:06:44] Josie Jarvis: That's one of the meaningful occupations within Utah overall in Icelandic culture is they like to document family history and genealogy as of a high value. I know, obviously, those that have listened with my dad's side, that's where I get the connection to Kate [00:07:00] B. Carter and tracking a lot of those.

[00:07:02] Josie Jarvis: She took the oral and written histories and the artifacts of many of the settlers in that regional area and got them written down on paper. So we're really lucky that we can source some of those things. But at the same time, there's a lot of details that I don't know that right now I'm playing Kate B.

[00:07:18] Josie Jarvis: Carter and recording some of these details so that we can track some things down. So what kind of how like maybe share how it was that your life paths converged. How did that, how did you guys find each other? 

[00:07:36] Julie Jarvis: So I was in college and your dad had already moved up to Wyoming to work.

[00:07:45] Julie Jarvis: But it was, where do you go to meet people today? We had, I had been invited to go to a, it was a non alcoholic disco, place that was in Salt [00:08:00] Lake City. And your dad went with one of his friends, came down to Salt Lake City to find, pick up girls. And so we met at this little, quote, bar, that wasn't really a bar and exchanged phone numbers.

[00:08:17] Julie Jarvis: And then later on, he came back down and We started to date. 

[00:08:23] Josie Jarvis: So one of the things that prompted me to reach out to record this episode is because I'm writing about the theory of critical junctures and critical junctures emerge when there's like new technology that just radically transforms a previous like institution or entity.

[00:08:43] Josie Jarvis: And we've actually cited two of them so far, especially with your occupational narrative mom in that. I didn't realize that my grandfather Bill Otto, I didn't realize that in that computer science and the automation of industry, that was a [00:09:00] major destructive social economic event that radically transformed a lot of industries internationally.

[00:09:07] Josie Jarvis: So that's one connection point that we have to a critical juncture. And then another one is disco. So like prior to disco, we had a lot of traditions in the settler colonial context of things like square dancing. I know a lot of my patients met their long term life partners at military dances and saw cops.

[00:09:32] Josie Jarvis: Whereas disco had an added element of increased diversity inclusion of people of color those of us that are listening to this that are swifties have a lot to credit To disco for the prominence of female pop vocalists getting more mainstream airtime What do you guys can you tell me a little bit about your relationship to music in that era?

[00:09:58] Josie Jarvis: And can you explain to [00:10:00] them what era that was that you met up at the disco? 

[00:10:03] Julie Jarvis: So we would have met in about 1982. And so it was a very early eighties. So we had all of the late seventies, early eighties music. Definitely the disco classic Saturday night fever BGs and what else? Wait, maybe it wasn't so much about the disco dancing, but we certainly.

[00:10:31] Julie Jarvis: Like the music 

[00:10:32] Josie Jarvis: and feel rebellious at all to go to disco as somebody 

[00:10:37] Julie Jarvis: No, because it was like a like under Okay for under 21 or it was like a non alcoholic place. So it was like meant for young people. 

[00:10:50] Josie Jarvis: Disco wasn't scandalous in Utah at that time? 

[00:10:54] Julie Jarvis: Okay. No, none of that was.

[00:10:55] Julie Jarvis: It, there were, that's one thing that like [00:11:00] the Mormon church or the LDS church, they love their dancing. It's not some other fundamentalist Christian type religions. I think, I don't know which ones they are, but they like outlawed dancing and stuff like that. It's just not 

[00:11:15] Josie Jarvis: a thing. We're going to circle back to that, but I want to get dad's perspective on this.

[00:11:19] Josie Jarvis: Cause he was saying. Yeah, 

[00:11:21] Wade Jarvis: I don't agree with her. 

[00:11:23] Josie Jarvis: Oh yeah. Tell me your perspective, 

[00:11:25] Wade Jarvis: dad. It

[00:11:28] Wade Jarvis: was a little bit scandalous to go. I think your mom didn't go to the disco. Probably with the idea of meeting a boy. 

[00:11:39] Julie Jarvis: Oh, of course I did. 

[00:11:40] Wade Jarvis: Oh, but anyway, it, in a Mormon context to go look for a boy outside of church was probably a little scandalous, so like the thing that I happened in my life is my [00:12:00] mother didn't raise me to take Mormon.

[00:12:03] Wade Jarvis: But she did realize that was where I was going to live and grow up and have to live. So I went to church and did those things to be prepared, but it was the water that we swam in. It was the way society was. So anyway, in the Mormon religion, it's. You're really pushed pretty hard to get married from the time you leave high school until you're about 20 But beyond 20, it means you're you're behind the curve We haven't got it done then, like for men who go on religion, on on their missions when they're supposed to get married when they get back and they're supposed to get married as soon as they get back.

[00:12:50] Wade Jarvis: So most, I think most girls, at least at the time I was at, they got married, 1920, 21 was probably getting a little late at it [00:13:00] and see, I didn't start dating seriously until I was. 23. 

[00:13:05] Julie Jarvis: That's how old you 

[00:13:06] Wade Jarvis: were when you got married. Yeah. So 22, 23. And so by the time I started dating, most of the girls that were, I went to high school with in Utah had already been 

[00:13:19] Josie Jarvis: paired up.

[00:13:19] Josie Jarvis: They were off the market. 

[00:13:21] Wade Jarvis: Or and I did date some that were unpaired, but if they were unpaired, they were desperate. And then I had a lot of pressure, cause you go on the second date and they're talking about the China pattern or whatever for your wedding. So anyway like there wasn't really girls to date in Wyoming at the time I lived there.

[00:13:44] Wade Jarvis: So I'd go down to Salt Lake city and I ran into your mother down there and she wasn't looking to get married immediately. So it was refreshing to run into someone 

[00:13:56] Julie Jarvis: like that. He bought me a diet, or he bought me [00:14:00] a Pepsi. 

[00:14:01] Josie Jarvis: That's why I was Mom, I think that there are some soft signs that maybe, and you might not be as aware of a covert little bit of a rebel there, 

[00:14:12] Julie Jarvis: Oh, I was I was a rebel. I, I was a I wasn't, especially by that time, I wasn't following the rules of the Mormon 

[00:14:21] Josie Jarvis: church. And I know that you're saying that it's usually other faiths that are more restrictive on dance. And I will say with my dances with the LDS church separate, because like my affiliations with the LDS church are very different than both of your affiliations with the LDS church.

[00:14:41] Josie Jarvis: Here, one second. I'll press play again. But I, something that I'm excited to include in this textbook chapter is the six degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon because I'm making the case That when we [00:15:00] don't have informal publishing of our science base or collection of these oral histories and these other traditions things, knowledge has Tora travel through this six degrees of separation, right?

[00:15:13] Josie Jarvis: So a lot of people that have never heard of occupational science before, they have to hear it. from somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. So it travels through this six degrees of separation. And I've had several very close degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. The first one is because I believe that Footloose was filmed close to places in Utah that you guys would visit.

[00:15:40] Josie Jarvis: Isn't that right? 

[00:15:41] Wade Jarvis: Oh yeah there's a scene in Footloose where they're playing chicken on tractors. Yeah. That was filmed on the Highland Canal and that's where I took your mother to make out on our second 

[00:15:54] Julie Jarvis: date. Yeah, but I think that was before the movie was filmed there. 

[00:15:58] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, might have been, but that, yeah.

[00:15:59] Julie Jarvis: [00:16:00] I think we pre, we, we were precursors to that, the movie. Yeah, but. 

[00:16:05] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, I thought maybe that was a low key reference to some of the more there are some occupations that LDS culture can be quite restrictive about. And I wasn't sure. I always thought maybe Dance was one of those because Footloose was filmed in Utah.

[00:16:24] Julie Jarvis: It was about a, it was trying to portray more of a, I don't want to name out a name of a type of Christian, but I want to say Baptist or something type of a, more of a fundamentalist Christian church. But what I remember on the Mormons is you definitely had rules on the church dances inside the church about not too much physical contact, but they definitely Love to have [00:17:00] dancing and dancing was part of all the talent shows and things like that and the schools there, there's no, I think they probably wouldn't like some of the current like modern dance with the girls with really leotards and stuff, but that being said.

[00:17:22] Julie Jarvis: The cheerleaders in the school functions in our little Mormon towns had plenty of all of that. So I don't think it was very taboo. 

[00:17:33] Josie Jarvis: It wasn't a reference to Utah, but it was filmed in Utah. And that was the era, right? You guys. When you watched Footloose, got to see a representation of your young teenage adulthood type culture reflected.

[00:17:50] Josie Jarvis: He was, you guys were fans. You didn't, you have a crush on Kevin Bacon? 

[00:17:54] Julie Jarvis: I'm sorry, Dad. Oh, me or dad, maybe both of us. 

[00:17:58] Josie Jarvis: I said, I'm sorry, dad. [00:18:00] I'm having mom. You're 

[00:18:00] Wade Jarvis: casting 

[00:18:01] Josie Jarvis: aspersions there. No, I'm saying, I'm sorry, dad. I think mom had a crush on Kevin Bacon. 

[00:18:07] Julie Jarvis: Oh, yeah. I think we all did. All of us in my, my cohort 

[00:18:12] Josie Jarvis: probably did.

[00:18:14] Josie Jarvis: So then the second connection that I have to Kevin Bacon is that his son also went to Evergreen, which a lot of the readers going around this is again showing how even though we're separated by different spaces, this is a good showing of how Destructive culture chains like shifts in disco, industrialization of certain industries.

[00:18:37] Josie Jarvis: We all go through these things together in different ways and we're all connected across generations. My mom got to see Footloose in live time. That was before I was born, but that became part of our informal publishing lore. and ended up connecting to my own life of seeing, who Kevin Bacon wasn't just as an actor, but was also just like another dad, another parent of a [00:19:00] student that we're connected to.

[00:19:01] Josie Jarvis: So this is just an interesting lens of realizing that we're all more connected than we realize, especially through the forces of occupation, such as the occupation of dance and the evolution of dance. We just had the. podcast about hip hop and how hip hop culture is one of those things that can really transform many of the institutions we're in by giving grace to diverse voices.

[00:19:25] Josie Jarvis: Now, dad, can you explain to me how you went from, really your family lineage was rooted and fixed obviously in Iceland since 800 A. D. until the 1850s settled in the Timpanogos Territory, settler name, Spanish Fork. You moved in several places within Utah, but you broke a cycle in your family line and you went to a different state.

[00:19:52] Josie Jarvis: What attracted you to Wyoming?

[00:19:55] Wade Jarvis: Already was there. No so my brother Tim had been working up in [00:20:00] Wyoming for a while. He was in Green River and, I went to trade school in diesel mechanics and I just badly wanted to be out of Utah and at the time there I really couldn't see very good economic opportunities in Utah.

[00:20:26] Wade Jarvis: For what that I went to Wyoming and went to work for, I probably went there for double the wage I could have made in Utah. And there was a lot of things that are very hard about it because it was cold, windy, and.

[00:20:43] Wade Jarvis: Not that many people, yeah, and stuff like that. But I really just wanted to not be in Utah anymore. 

[00:20:56] Julie Jarvis: That was a good selling point for me to marry [00:21:00] too. I didn't want to be in Utah anymore 

[00:21:02] Josie Jarvis: either. What was it about Utah that it felt like you wanted to explore something different? I, 

[00:21:09] Julie Jarvis: I think I was by then sensing all of the.

[00:21:13] Julie Jarvis: The Mormon culture and realizing having lived as a younger. Person in other places, realizing that there really is a lot more of the world than just this little, Salt Lake City Valley. That, that kind of was exciting to move to, a different state and different place and.

[00:21:34] Josie Jarvis: For kind of some adventure, some new opportunities breaking out. And you were young adults, right? You were, so dad was in his early twenties and you were. 

[00:21:44] Julie Jarvis: I was just almost I turned 20 after got married in July and turned 20 in October. So I was 19 and then turned 20. So I was. Pretty young.

[00:21:59] Josie Jarvis: That's one of the [00:22:00] major shifts between your generation and my generation, especially ending up in Pacific Northwest culture, right? Like in Utah culture, even I would say to this day, it's fairly culturally customary, especially within the LDS tradition to be courting with the intention of marriage pretty early in your development.

[00:22:22] Josie Jarvis: In secular Pacific Northwest where I was enculturated as an occupational being and the progression of socioeconomic conditions Because this was in the early 80s, right? Yeah, we were early 80s So in the early eighties that you guys were dating and dad, you had economic opportunity right after was that equivalent to maybe associate's degree or a certification program that you went through?

[00:22:52] Josie Jarvis: Trade 

[00:22:52] Wade Jarvis: school. So it was I graduated with a two year degree. I can't remember what they call that, but it was just a [00:23:00] technical college, 

[00:23:01] Josie Jarvis: what would you suspect the conversion wage would likely be from like night in the early 80s Where you said it doubled your wage to go to wyoming Without it being a unionized job.

[00:23:12] Josie Jarvis: You were in this is the leading edge of the neoliberal model, right? So you're in the early stages of reaganism coming in and so it was possible to get a two year trade certification And to access essentially a living wage job, where you could support a nuclear family. 

[00:23:30] Wade Jarvis: And part of what made me move okay,

[00:23:34] Wade Jarvis: in Utah at the time, if I would have gotten into a job, at just as like right out of school type of job in decent mechanics. It would probably be pretty doubtful that I would have had medical benefits. Probably be pretty doubtful. I'd have medical benefits and a probably if they didn't have 401ks at the time, but It wouldn't have been anything with defined benefits [00:24:00] or pension or anything like that.

[00:24:02] Wade Jarvis: And so where I worked in Wyoming I'm having a hard time remembering that wages. 

[00:24:08] Julie Jarvis: I know what they were. So in, when he worked in the mine, it was about 40 to $45,000 a year. So what is that? 20, $20 an hour. So a year is 2000, 2000 hours. So like about $20 an hour. wage 

[00:24:28] Josie Jarvis: for him, which would, and this would be almost edging on getting closer to 40 years ago.

[00:24:33] Josie Jarvis: So this would be like 30 something years ago. So the inflation rate since then, which like for context we have one in the Seattle area a 15 minimum wage. And to like this day, it's often like to find. An entry level job today at $20 an hour is in some context really exceeding the minimum wage, so really it was a [00:25:00] living wage in that to 

[00:25:02] Julie Jarvis: minimum, minimum wage was less than $5. Yeah. Right Back then, 

[00:25:07] Wade Jarvis: so yeah. And I weren't always looking at wages in Utah, if I remember right, eight, I would've been thinking about eight, something like that. And then so there, there was a lot.

[00:25:18] Wade Jarvis: There was a lot of pressure. I don't know if pressure, but I really just, like I just felt if I would have stayed there, I would have just been broke all the time and, like I had friends to compare with when I moved up there and realized that they weren't. Doing as well as I was one of the things that might have been a little bit different for your mother than it was for me, but where my family had lived in that area for a few generations, and pretty much a lot of the families that were with us, then I had a real feeling of,

[00:25:59] Wade Jarvis: Being [00:26:00] born with your cake already baked. That people pigeonholed you and that who you were is who you were. And with the church and everything, those were things really hard to break out of. If you stayed, it's once people had an idea of you, it didn't change much. To move is about the only way that you can write your own story, if you get what I mean.

[00:26:24] Josie Jarvis: Certainly. So you I don't know if you're aware of this, Dad of Having some traits that are somewhat consistent with our shared ancestors, because I can imagine they might have felt somewhat similarly at the time that Vignes and Fimboge chose to immigrate from the Iceland was still during an era where Iceland was colonized, I think it was with Denmark or something, but I imagine, and again, I don't know, so I'm excited to connect with Icelandic scholars on some of these cultural patterns, but I [00:27:00] imagine if you're living on this mossy rock since 800 A.

[00:27:03] Josie Jarvis: D. There's probably also a fixed narrative of what everybody assumes you are to be and what to do, and if you're part of the first cohort to leave Iceland and never come back that just strikes me as maybe an epigen possibly an epigenetic trait that we're Adventurers and mom, you, you found somebody that was daring to leave, right?

[00:27:27] Josie Jarvis: That home nest and dad your family was there since the 1850s, right? That's a pretty big 

[00:27:32] Julie Jarvis: shift. We repeated that, that pattern a few times too, as we moved across the country and back. It's 

[00:27:41] Josie Jarvis: occupational epigenetic transference, right? And I've been, that's a trait I can't fix out of.

[00:27:49] Josie Jarvis: I can't settle down in a setting or in one location, in part because I think I got really occupationally adapted to our transients, which in a way is [00:28:00] actually Can almost be more indigenous because a lot of indigenous cultures tended to be more nomadic around seasonal opportunities. It's actually much more of a settler colonial thing.

[00:28:13] Josie Jarvis: This notion of staying in one place on land is actually more of a modern phenomenon. Industrial. Industrial capitalism than it was most ancestral humans would be functionally migratory in a similar way that animals are. 

[00:28:30] Julie Jarvis: Yeah, I guess that's sounds right. I was gonna touch back to the Kevin Bacon thing one more one more degree Is he's a goat farmer and he sings to his goats so 

[00:28:46] Josie Jarvis: Now, do you mom have any awareness in your ancestry like clearly with the auto gould?

[00:28:54] Josie Jarvis: Continuum there is this touch of being connected to animals, right? Like we have [00:29:00] cat whispers in our family, we have wildlife restoration workers, we have your grandfather Chuck Googled, named different species of birds. Do you know about anything in your family history of where this animal whisper thing 

[00:29:17] Julie Jarvis: comes from?

[00:29:19] Julie Jarvis: No, but it, there's definitely people in each, extended family that I know of that really had that trait, but I don't 

[00:29:29] Josie Jarvis: know. that down in your ancestry to see if anybody was a farm had livestock at one point. I know with your dad, that's something that you would maybe even have some connection to occupationally, because your dad was a sheep herder, right?

[00:29:45] Josie Jarvis: Yeah. 

[00:29:46] Julie Jarvis: Yeah he, after he retired or whatever that actually 

[00:29:50] Wade Jarvis: goes along, I don't know. I don't know if that's really fair to say Julie, because so his father made his living from selling livestock almost on a [00:30:00] daily base basis. And then, from what I know about my father, it sounded like.

[00:30:06] Wade Jarvis: He did a lot of varied work before he went to work at Geneva Steel, and so he probably had things to do with animals through all that time. And then after he got sick and had his heart attack and stuff, that's when I knew of him sheep herding when I was little. I have very few memories of my father, so they even have those as something, but yeah, he, 

[00:30:30] Josie Jarvis: yeah.

[00:30:31] Josie Jarvis: I just know and I I would project that I wouldn't imagine, because I've been very surprised that a lot of the occupations that have been the most meaningful to me in my development, I didn't realize were really foundational cornerstones to Icelandic culture. So for example, some of the occupations that have been some of the most persistent in my development, in part because you guys shared and encouraged me to develop these skills include fiber [00:31:00] arts, weaving, and Knitting and sewing is one of those really core ancestral Icelandic and Scandinavian traditions.

[00:31:09] Josie Jarvis: It's incorporated into the lore of the weavers of fate. Dad, one of my favorite memories about us is when we made mom that drops. spindle, and we just somehow knew to recreate this drop spindle in exact Icelandic fashion. And I didn't even know I was Icelandic at the time. I think you might have known that you were Icelandic dad because of the like Icelander days and everything in Spanish fork.

[00:31:36] Josie Jarvis: Or did you know? Oh, yeah. 

[00:31:38] Wade Jarvis: Yeah. To me, there's a lot more That's one leg of our lineage. There's other legs of it that I'm aware of. I was aware 

[00:31:48] Josie Jarvis: of it. Clearly it was something that the generation before you was like, almost obscenely proud, prideful of. Like they made it a cornerstone of [00:32:00] their contributions.

[00:32:01] Josie Jarvis: That was, she got the, Order of the Falcon, these like really impressive names that they, really I think probably some of our family line was likely somewhat instrumental in connecting the LDS church to building active relationships with Icelandic leadership and maintaining those.

[00:32:20] Josie Jarvis: points of contact, but I bring that up just that sheep herding is a cornerstone occupation of the Icelandic community and is something that any immigrating community is gonna lean on some of those occupations that are really prominent in their culture of origin, right? So we got Magnus who is a midwife.

[00:32:41] Josie Jarvis: I never 

[00:32:42] Julie Jarvis: put that two and two together on the Icelandic sheep herder connection on Jarvis side. 

[00:32:49] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, I mentioned that because I don't know because I know mom you're very gifted with livestock and animals in general and in fact you were occupationally inclined to become a [00:33:00] veterinarian. And it would make sense and your ancestral lineage would likely have a wider exposure to different biodiversity of the types of plants and animals that your cultures would have had access to developing occupations around.

[00:33:16] Josie Jarvis: Iceland can be somewhat restrictive because you have fishing, sheep, and moss. We don't even really Volcanoes. The other thing that Dad, I don't know if he's aware of in re patterning Icelandic cultural customs is the being a mine mechanic, being a miner, and knowing how to work with rock, working with geological formations is a prominent part of Icelandic lore as well.

[00:33:42] Josie Jarvis: So that's always fascinating to me, but your family history would probably include more. biological diversity and like different animals that they could develop a relationship 

[00:33:53] Julie Jarvis: with. Yeah, mine was, like more of a mix. [00:34:00] Certainly lots of different European heritage. Whatever was over In Europe, so that's a lot, a big diverse 

[00:34:10] Josie Jarvis: type.

[00:34:11] Josie Jarvis: You have a gift with plants as well. So I'm curious, in your childhood development did you notice an early inter an early proclivity towards animals or plants? Was that something that showed up 

[00:34:24] Julie Jarvis: and emerged? I always had my own pets from, A really young age, like cats mostly, and then hamsters and we always had a lot of animals in our house.

[00:34:39] Julie Jarvis: So that was, that was just kind of part of my growing up is having lots of little animals. We didn't have very many dogs until later. So I wasn't around dogs a lot, but certainly the cats and, other animals that my siblings had. 

[00:34:58] Josie Jarvis: What drove your passion [00:35:00] to consider first of all what drove your passion to consider medicine that became your passion?

[00:35:06] Josie Jarvis: And then what drove your passion for considering working with the healing of animals and like more diverse biological? Where did that come 

[00:35:13] Julie Jarvis: from? I always was super interested learning about it and reading and learning. Yeah. Read all the books of the day about animal stories and whatever.

[00:35:25] Julie Jarvis: And then when it wasn't until I didn't consider going to vet school until after I actually worked in a vet office, for a little while and realized that would be really super interesting. But then actually got into vet school. But then we weren't able to sell our house at the right timing.

[00:35:49] Julie Jarvis: They gave me a year to hold my position, but by then I had already found out about physician assistant as a career. [00:36:00] And that was even more interesting to me than the vet school. And so financially and yeah, it was only, it was less years and And then, was going to I had some good friends at the time that I was considering vet school that, really talked me out of it.

[00:36:19] Julie Jarvis: Like a handful of people that either were vets new vets or some of the older vets that I knew, they really steered me away from it just because it, at least in Wyoming, there was. It was really a dismal outlook on their livelihood there, and it just wasn't like it is now, where people were not paying very much money for their animal care, and it was pretty low paying, and, they all, said it wasn't worth the time and effort that they put into it, they [00:37:00] would have chosen something else.

[00:37:01] Julie Jarvis: So that kind of played into my decision eventually. 

[00:37:06] Josie Jarvis: Did you face, so one of the things that's interesting to me, many that are listening to this may not know of, but if they want, if they're curious about Latter day Saints culture in some context, not all of it, but some of it, any culture, any community, right?

[00:37:21] Josie Jarvis: I, we're sharing with you and those that have listened to the podcast so far Iceland culture, viking culture, there's a lot of skeletons in those closets, right? They wear it on their sleeves. They're quite a violent culture There is a prominent mainstream non fiction book called Under the Banner of Heaven that profiles a specific member family of a fundamentalist sect of the fundamentalist Latter day Saint that endorsed maintaining some of the practices of polygamy that was around the era of time that you would have been in Provo around a similar time?

[00:37:56] Julie Jarvis: Yeah. I don't think either one of us were really [00:38:00] aware of that was that, that book was about people down in southern, very southern Utah that were really pretty isolated town down there. So like at the time that was going on, we really had no. It wasn't anything on our radar, certainly, but we definitely devoured the book when it came out and were very alarmed 

[00:38:31] Josie Jarvis: at it.

[00:38:32] Josie Jarvis: They produced a show of it on Hulu. That when I watch it, the way that they've costumed and stylized the time, it's, when I watch it, I imagine, oh, and it reminds me of parts of Wyoming that we lived in that were close to that era. So to me, it's like a peek back to that cultural context.

[00:38:52] Josie Jarvis: And I'm lucky with my heritage that we actually produce media about these times. The reason why I brought up Under the [00:39:00] Banner of Heaven, In that case, it's like a true crime situation. So anybody likes true crime? I encourage you to check it out and it can give you a window of parts two of legacy LDS culture that preserves some of the customs and ways of the early settlers, the wild west type community.

[00:39:19] Josie Jarvis: Some of those traditions pass on through LDS culture. There's Split just like any sect of Christianity. There's different splinters and different belief systems that come up, but I think under the banner of heaven shows a good example that sometimes in Mormon culture, the idea of women. having professional roles and identities can have internal stigma to it.

[00:39:45] Josie Jarvis: That was an example where one of the wives in that family chose to go to BYU just like you mom in a similar era of time and that ended up leading to a religiously rationalized [00:40:00] murder of this woman and her children because there was a stigma within Mormon culture for many generations. for women to have professional roles outside of the home or outside of its service to the church.

[00:40:13] Josie Jarvis: I'm adding that cultural context here, mom, because I'm curious in this phase of your life, when you're starting to explore different options for your professional development, did you face any stigma or backlash within Mormonism within Wyoming, within Utah. What was it like to be actively pursuing an advanced professional credential during that time?

[00:40:37] Julie Jarvis: It definitely influenced me right out of high school on what I chose to enroll in college. Because I, in high school I was very good and my favorite classes were the maths and science and hard sciences instead of the what is the opposite? Soft science the 

[00:40:58] Josie Jarvis: English social [00:41:00] sciences 

[00:41:00] Julie Jarvis: and, but I was definitely, any.

[00:41:06] Julie Jarvis: School counselor or whatever did not say, Oh, wow, you should go on to pre med major, or you should, look into engineering or whatever, because that was not. good place for women to go into. So I was geared pushed. 

[00:41:27] Josie Jarvis: I know you got a marketing degree at BYU. Was that something where you might've been more interested in maybe something in the sciences?

[00:41:34] Josie Jarvis: Had that been encouraged is what you're 

[00:41:36] Julie Jarvis: saying? After, even after a year of my first year, I, wished I would have chosen something else in the, in, not in the communications or art stuff but, when you're, I was 17 when I started [00:42:00] college and you don't realize that you can change your mind.

[00:42:05] Julie Jarvis: And so I was just like, Oh, I chose this. So I'm going to finish it. 

[00:42:10] Josie Jarvis: Did you have anything with me as your daughter? Did you have that? Was that ever conscious in your mind of trying to like, encourage me to go towards this science? Was that like, I'm curious how active or passive both of you, both of your influences were on what you saw for me as 

[00:42:29] Julie Jarvis: your daughter.

[00:42:30] Julie Jarvis: I, I think that especially, with your talents were, very wide and extremely varied and you had, your coursework was, like, really what I want to say encompassed a lot of different realms that you could, explore. 

[00:42:54] Josie Jarvis: Can I say it in a different way? Can I say it in a different way?

[00:42:57] Josie Jarvis: When I [00:43:00] have memories of from a very young age, going through your anatomy and physiology textbooks and being interested in them. Did you put those out on purpose where I could find them or did I just 

[00:43:10] Julie Jarvis: stumble on them? They were just out on the kitchen table while I was studying and you were looking over my shoulder or something.

[00:43:17] Julie Jarvis: But I, what I guess my point was going to be that when you started deciding to go, explore like the, more of the. You originally, or you eventually got onto occupational therapy, but you were starting to turn towards more of a, social, I think you, I think there was a couple others that weren't occupational therapy, but they were more like psychology or instead of Politics.

[00:43:48] Josie Jarvis: I'm getting from you that you did it not in a bad way necessarily, but it wasn't like you were like, I got discouraged from the sciences and I'm gonna make sure that Josie doesn't feel discouraged for that. I, that was part of the era [00:44:00] I grew up in, was like, there was a big push to make sure that, fields that previously discouraged women from being involved.

[00:44:07] Josie Jarvis: I was very fortunate to be in the Pacific Northwest during an era where there was a cultural and social movement to not to stop that STEM exclusion. 

[00:44:18] Julie Jarvis: I feel like you got a lot of sciences in your high school. You were in chemistry and whatnot. But I, I remember being like very encouraging when you started to explore the occupational therapy because I could see where that would be a really good fit.

[00:44:34] Julie Jarvis: But yeah, I think we've always been conscious of not like having limits on what our kids could choose to 

[00:44:43] Wade Jarvis: do. Okay. Can I chime in at this point? Because I have a different point of view here. Okay. In Mormon culture, I think that there's a lot of pressure for a woman To have a degree or [00:45:00] something as a backup, but there's a lot of pressure to be just a homemaker.

[00:45:04] Wade Jarvis: But the thing of it was, I wasn't really raised by, my father was dead and I was raised by my mother. And that definitely wasn't my mother's idea. And so I think my mother instilled in me different values to have. So when I got married, I didn't really look at my wife as somebody that had to be a homemaker.

[00:45:29] Wade Jarvis: And so to me I think that being able to say, Hey, hon, you seem to like to do this stuff. Maybe you should go. into college and do that wasn't that big of a stretch for me where it might have been for somebody 

[00:45:46] Josie Jarvis: else. I think, I know Dan that I'm aware, maybe if mom, maybe mom, if you didn't get a lot of backlash in the cultural context that you were in for making a kind of transgressive choice.

[00:45:58] Josie Jarvis: I just know in middle [00:46:00] America, cause I was also, I was raised in different parts of middle America than you guys were. And it was very palpable in Kansas. For example that I would have faced stigma for, and I did face stigma as being a precocial girl. It wasn't as encouraged, the gender roles in Kansas to develop those traits.

[00:46:20] Josie Jarvis: And I would suspect, Mom, I might have even gotten harsher pushback than you experienced from that. But Dad, I think you did get some pushback for being a little bit unconventional in gender roles and in, in supporting Mom through school, right? You got some judgment about that because that was different from what the kind of traditional masculine, like I heard that and what you're saying that for you it 

[00:46:45] Wade Jarvis: wasn't a thing that's true.

[00:46:45] Wade Jarvis: I had men give me bad advice. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I think is unusual in our family culturally, Is

[00:46:56] Wade Jarvis: my mother had me when she was pretty late in life, [00:47:00] so I was born to parents that were a lot older than the children that I was going to school with fathers and mothers were so my father and mother went through the depression and, I can remember my mother talking about how wonderful Roosevelt was.

[00:47:23] Wade Jarvis: And, where the kids I went to high school with probably didn't share that same opinion. 

[00:47:31] Josie Jarvis: And that's like the new conversions to Mormonism versus those that really had a long term and were maybe not on the side of it, because this is, I'm interjecting because this is another critical juncture point because we explained that you guys were developing in young adulthood at the beginning of the Reagan era, which was more about cutting Social programs, government services, and what you're talking about, Dad, was a rare era in Utah history to have a sect [00:48:00] of Mormon culture that was pro union, 

[00:48:02] Wade Jarvis: pro social programs.

[00:48:03] Wade Jarvis: My parents were very pro union, very pro government programs, and, my mother pushed me in the directions of getting a union job's a wonderful thing. And one part of this that I'm not I don't know if you've ever connected it up, but the Icelanders, even though they were converted to Mormonism, they had a reputation of not really following the rules so well.

[00:48:34] Wade Jarvis: And then anyway for the men that were in Utah Valley at the time, World War II, before that time, if you got cross threaded with your bishop, Or you were having trouble with a church, you could lose your job. The church had enough reach to make you lose your job. After United States still came in and Geneva, [00:49:00] that's the first time that these guys ever had union jobs that they could not be fired from because somebody.

[00:49:07] Wade Jarvis: Cause they didn't go to church. They didn't go to church or they didn't do something right. So I think there was a point where.

[00:49:14] Wade Jarvis: My mother and father were both had this little bit of militant freedom that people didn't really have after or 

[00:49:24] Josie Jarvis: before. There is from what I've been researching because just to share with the potential listeners, this is a common thing for first, second generation immigrants to North America, to the United States.

[00:49:39] Josie Jarvis: Part of the cost of assimilating and finding employment into a new culture, and this pattern continues to this day, it plays out in different eras and the different waves of immigrants, but part of it is you do face this choice sometimes to sacrifice your Prior culture to adopt, and Mormonism is [00:50:00] actually or Latter day Saints are currently still known about this pattern internationally, is you adopt more of a North American Bye.

[00:50:10] Josie Jarvis: Standard and like they can have that high standard of conformity to access things like employment yet what we find amongst a lot of different cultures is that there often is resistance to that and folks that want to hold on to their cultural identity and I would say that there's a lot of soft signs from that dad in our lineage in that Kate and Eleanor really had a lust to preserve their attachment and elements of Icelandic culture.

[00:50:38] Josie Jarvis: You found some support in continuing to speak the Icelandic language to document and preserve certain cultural customs like sheep herding. And I would say too, Dan, from what I'm aware of, just academic study about Icelandic culture is there tends to be more flexibility in Scandinavian culture around masculine and feminine gender [00:51:00] roles than tends to be encouraged in these Bible Belt states.

[00:51:04] Josie Jarvis: There tends to be leaning on women to take on more trades based and professional roles and, I can imagine I was partly raised by your mom, right? Ruth Jarvis, that was born in the 1920s, right? 1917. Oh, 1917. Wow. So she was born the same year that occupational therapy was born. So she grew up in the same arc that occupational therapy.

[00:51:28] Josie Jarvis: That's funny. I have the same birth date as occupational science and Grandma Jarvis has the same birth date of occupational therapy. So we've grown and come of age with these critical junctures that have shaped our identity as a cultural collective, really. And this is really showing how we're connected through eras of time.

[00:51:47] Josie Jarvis: And we're so lucky, Dad, because of your family's interest and part of Mormonism's support of that occupation of genealogy and family history, we're pretty well connected to our cultural roots where you can go back [00:52:00] to 800 AD and see who our ancestors were and see what they celebrated and brought out of each other, some of the darkness, some of the lightness.

[00:52:09] Josie Jarvis: It makes sense to me that they would have been attracted to parts of the Latter day Saint church with that lust for adventure. Telling narratives of interesting magical tales, that's very, that's like a saga. Some of Joseph Smith's prophecies have saga like qualities to them. What I'm bringing this up, and to circle back your mom, I think, I could imagine her being Rosie the Riveter.

[00:52:34] Josie Jarvis: She was very much a very capable woman, and had many professional roles as well, I believe. In that time, and I think you said, too, that she sometimes had a hard time conforming to traditional feminine roles in her family. Is that right? 

[00:52:48] Wade Jarvis: Yeah I don't know. 

[00:52:51] Josie Jarvis: Okay, not Icelandic. She was from Denmark, Scandinavian culture 

[00:52:56] Wade Jarvis: to get to drill down on that a little [00:53:00] bit.

[00:53:00] Wade Jarvis: Okay, in the Mormon religion, the darker your skin was, the more closer you were to sin, the lighter your skin were, the more further away you were from sins, so whole thing about Nephites and Lamanites and stuff, that's what that was based on. In her family is what. They called the dark Dane, and I was supposed to be a dark Dane, several of my aunts were not dark Dane, and my mom was a dark Dane.

[00:53:32] Wade Jarvis: And anyway, I think that there was some pressure there because anytime you get in this, we get in the sun, we darken up really quick. And so anyway, she worked out in the fields with her father. And her mother kept their other two daughters in the house. So I think that she was just,

[00:53:55] Wade Jarvis: I wouldn't say, I guess you might say that might be accidental, but she was [00:54:00] pushed into a different gender role. during her young life. 

[00:54:05] Josie Jarvis: I like that, that on both sides of my family as being somebody that also in my own life has broken through gender role expectations. I think it's been occupationally helpful to me that I've had role models on both sides of my family of women that have broken with some of those traditions.

[00:54:24] Josie Jarvis: And. Bringing through and I love that about Footloose too because Footloose is a parable of sometimes that tension of growing up with more religiously restrictive environments and that's really connected to all of United States history and our colonial legacy. A lot of us know about the Puritans and having those dynamics play out and I think that's just a very human part of us and something for us to consider You might reflect and go through some of your family history, you'll probably find some patterns of conformity and some patterns of resistance [00:55:00] likely, you're unlikely to find total homogeneity across the board, and even though we grew up in communities that are, like, not always known to be very diverse, I guess I'm somewhat curious about that.

[00:55:14] Josie Jarvis: When you said that, did you grow up with any, did that impact your life in any way, Dad, being known as a dark Dane? Were there any conscience? Did you notice experiencing any stigma from that in those communities? 

[00:55:26] Wade Jarvis: I had some. I would get confused a lot. Had people ask me if I was Hispanic a lot when I was in high school and stuff, and then they would, people would just ask me what race are you where it's a weird question to have asked 

[00:55:41] Josie Jarvis: you. Did you guys, were you aware of any explicit or implicit differentiated treatment during the eras when you were growing up in Utah, Wyoming, Kansas? What was your relationship or [00:56:00] lens for understanding some of the racial tensions that were taking place in the United States during those times?

[00:56:07] Julie Jarvis: I was going to say, are my town and high school, school and high school was not diverse at all. We had probably less than 1 percent non white. People and, but I had my up until, grade six or whatever, had such a diverse, places that I lived that I knew that was.

[00:56:39] Julie Jarvis: That our town was unusual, and so I didn't really see the thing was, is like the nonwhite kids in our school, they were quite popular, kids and included in lots of things. I don't think there were enough of [00:57:00] a novel novelty or something that that it wasn't very noticeable.

[00:57:05] Julie Jarvis: In my schooling, per se, but we 

[00:57:08] Josie Jarvis: also were small town. Do you mind if I ask dad a few questions? Yeah. Because dad, you would have grown up in Utah with some conscious awareness, like, when, part of why I'm having this interview is because I question some of my childhood memory, because it's before I could write things down.

[00:57:27] Josie Jarvis: And, we have that classic amusing keepsake of me being, I think I was like 10 years old, writing that story about what was Elion Gonzalez and that thing. And so like dad, when you were like a young child through early adolescence you would have maybe had some awareness of how the civil rights movement was developing from when you were born.

[00:57:50] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, we're very aware of it. How, wait, so what was like, how was Utah framing that conversation? What did it feel like? [00:58:00] Was it controversial to support the civil rights movement during 

[00:58:03] Wade Jarvis: that time? To some people, it was very controversial, and there, there were racist people, but that wasn't like a blanket.

[00:58:13] Wade Jarvis: It didn't feel like all people were that. Yeah. There were just some people that were that way. And when Ibra had anybody give me any kind of problem or hassle about it, it was just like one or two people. It wasn't like I was ganged up on by a bunch of people or anything like that. One of the things I found peculiar about it is my cousins.

[00:58:36] Wade Jarvis: I had two cousins that were the dark Danes. And they were strikingly beautiful women and I joke a lot about it about, but the one that was she was just two years ahead of me in high school. And when I was in high school, I'd say, yeah, Tracy's my cousin and nobody would believe me because she was so [00:59:00] popular, and everybody thought she was so beautiful and, no, you, she couldn't possibly 

[00:59:06] Josie Jarvis: be your cousin.

[00:59:06] Josie Jarvis: Alluded to that too, because there's a sense of fitting that sometimes, when you see pictures of grandma Ruth, this is a weird thing to talk about with your mom, but I think she fit up, fit sometimes that pin up aesthetic, right? She had, they aligned well with some of the things that they put on a pedestal during that time, or I imagine that had an allure.

[00:59:27] Josie Jarvis: Because like I knew growing up in rural America in a different context, sometimes that being that rebellious thing is just a natural Proclivity in some of those things. So sometimes those things I feel like, for example, when we moved to Kansas, the age differential between me and Jake, I felt like Jake got to be the cool, edgy kid for not going to church.

[00:59:52] Josie Jarvis: And I was too young. I wasn't going to be the cool rebellious. Thing I was gonna be the one you couldn't like you weren't allowed to [01:00:00] talk to Whereas jake was like, oh i'm Yeah, i'm in middle school. So even though he doesn't go to church. I feel cool talking to him So he got to be A little bit of an outsider in a cool way and I felt like I was not an outsider in a cool way 

[01:00:17] Wade Jarvis: I think that with my cousins that was something very much alive because in utah to be out there and dating a girl who Looked like she was hispanic and it was exotic was like cool in an exotic way You didn't really want to take her home to mother, but it was really probably really 

[01:00:36] Josie Jarvis: cool We've learned too that they call that In more the academic or listening to these communities too that exoticization or we call it fetishization Can also be one of the ways that cultural racism can make some people we talked about that in my podcast with malia Delante who went to high school with me in Tahoma that was half [01:01:00] Hawaiian and she commented on how often there would be a lot more romantic interest in her and that would be taken as a compliment, but it also was something that put her at an increased vulnerability to predatory or rationalized violent behavior.

[01:01:15] Josie Jarvis: So there's a double edged sword to it. 

[01:01:17] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, it'd probably be like having somebody have interest in you for the wrong reasons. 

[01:01:23] Josie Jarvis: Josephine Baker, right? She's one of the people that I put on a pedestal because she's such an interesting historic figure, which mom, I didn't know that you also spent time in St.

[01:01:33] Josie Jarvis: Louis. So Josephine Baker was born in St. Louis, Missouri, and she went on to become the first international celebrity. And really by transgressing some of those social norms in the early, settlement stages of the United States being a woman of color that would dance, this is circling back to hip hop.

[01:01:54] Josie Jarvis: Oh, not hip hop, but disco, right? We get these transgression of social norms [01:02:00] is part of these critical junctures coming about. And being able to advocate for social change, she would play that edge, but similar to Marilyn Monroe could always attract male attention, but difficulty finding a response.

[01:02:16] Josie Jarvis: Respectful long term partner and also being vulnerable to certain parts of exploitation Something I haven't gotten to touch on yet that I wanted to is looking at that lens of fiber arts and We'll close out the conversation here soon. But I wanted to because of mom we've shared that connection.

[01:02:38] Josie Jarvis: With getting reconnected to fiber arts traditions, which are very prominent speaking on Dad's side from that settler colonial 1800s we had, that was probably a big part, and Dad, you had your, one of your other aunts that would sell the crazy quilt pillows that I love so much, outside of Temple Square, [01:03:00] right?

[01:03:00] Josie Jarvis: Do you have memories, Dad, of your family members? Did you observe them doing any quilting or fiber arts, or did you notice that with your mom? 

[01:03:07] Wade Jarvis: Quilting always went on, from all that, and, of course, my mother was a seamstress for everybody. 

[01:03:17] Julie Jarvis: And they, she even worked in a factory in the sewing. 

[01:03:21] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, she.

[01:03:22] Wade Jarvis: Sewing. Sewing, but, when I was talking with your Aunt Pat, she was talking about how her friend Kathy was telling her that how wonderful it was that my mother made her wedding dress because it was the only way that they could afford one. That's 

[01:03:39] Josie Jarvis: actually a great lens to have this conversation because part of what I'm writing about right now is illustrating that one of the lens to understand some of these advanced, Constructs is realizing that we also have been living through these areas so we can probably see examples of our own life So mom you were [01:04:00] sharing with me that growing up in Utah many of your friends it was a customary occupation to learn how to sew clothes and that was like incorporated in the curriculum and That, when you were in high school, an adolescence mom, would have still been in that time period where textile manufacturing and would have been a pretty active industry in the United States, and from that you were commenting that you grew up in a time where fabric could be more affordable than the clothing, which would connect to You know, a lot of the labor rights movement in the United States has almost always taken place at that juncture point of textile manufacturing, right?

[01:04:47] Josie Jarvis: Because we had the tenement houses, the shirtwaist coat factory that was the prominent, disaster of the lack of regulatory labor conditions that led to [01:05:00] unionizing textile manufacturing and making sure that those that we didn't, we started with sweatshops in the United States, but we eventually, a lot of people in the 60s, 70s had living wage jobs in textile manufacturing, but you guys lived during the area of that Reagan deregulation that sent textile manufacturing overseas.

[01:05:24] Josie Jarvis: Yep. And, cause you were saying that when me and my brother were born, you would make a lot of our clothes because it was cheaper than purchasing them. Yeah. 

[01:05:35] Julie Jarvis: And then it switched after a few years to where it was cheaper to get Really, it was also the, thrifting and stuff was also definitely cost effective for, kids clothes, but But when I, just throughout my childhood and junior high school, I did make probably more than [01:06:00] half of my own clothes, and I sewed clothes for my brothers and sisters, and that was just it was common, and some girls didn't know how to sew, but a lot of us did, and, we sewed our own clothes and made up our own designs, and that was, that was part of my occupation as a older child and high schooler and then, it just It's like I put all of that away when I started working because I just didn't have time to do that.

[01:06:34] Julie Jarvis: For quite a lot of years, I had my sewing machines put away. How was it, 

[01:06:38] Josie Jarvis: Phil, how was it felt to bring that back? Did it come back to you, like getting on a bike? What was it like to go off of it and come back onto it? 

[01:06:47] Julie Jarvis: No, it was like, yeah, it wasn't, there wasn't a learning curve again, it was definitely like riding a 

[01:06:54] Josie Jarvis: bike.

[01:06:56] Josie Jarvis: Did you find it, do you find anything therapeutic about it? What [01:07:00] has been like? Yeah, 

[01:07:01] Julie Jarvis: I, I like, after I started, that's probably why we went crazy with all the sewing machines, is after a while, I was like, this is so great and fun. I need to do it in every room. Tell 

[01:07:14] Josie Jarvis: the audience about that, because what, like That is something interesting.

[01:07:18] Josie Jarvis: And I actually don't know a lot about it because it's been having during the pandemic. But dad, I feel like confident to share with the people listening that you have mechanical talents and that you enjoy knowing how machine works and that like that might be partly connected to your dyslexic brain because visual spatial reasoning tends to be a good strength.

[01:07:40] Josie Jarvis: In that, I, building off of that too, I'm curious you probably were in school in a time where wood shops and stuff, and that mechanical knowledge was probably heavily emphasized. 

[01:07:51] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, and during my senior year, I never was out of a shop 

[01:07:56] Josie Jarvis: class. Did you ever get presented with [01:08:00] opportunities to learn any fiber arts?

[01:08:03] Wade Jarvis: No they were probably there, but you did the modeling. I did. I just did the modeling and things like that. But one thing that I would like to speak to on that, that I think that was different from my time than it is now or was I can remember. When people would talk about people at that time, being able to fix something or being able to do things like that was something that was very much looked up on.

[01:08:31] Wade Jarvis: I can remember people saying to me, Oh, that guy sets bearings, one of the best bearing centers at the mill, and people would. They would have great reputations based on their skills, whereas I don't think you hear that as much anymore. 

[01:08:50] Josie Jarvis: Was that something that kind of shaped parts of your aspirations and occupational identity?

[01:08:56] Josie Jarvis: Did you aspire to be of like practical use or [01:09:00] demonstrate like very specialized skill from that? Yeah, everything. So it was very well prized? 

[01:09:05] Wade Jarvis: Everything to me from as long as I can remember was I wanted to be able to fix things and I wanted to be good at fixing things and I wanted to understand how things work.

[01:09:16] Wade Jarvis: It was something I was really driven to, but like I said, like at the time when I was young, those were very appreciated 

[01:09:24] Josie Jarvis: skills. Thinking about appreciated skills and sewing and mechanical skills that we now know have been functionally removed from a lot of K through 12 curriculum across the US as we've in, parts of this textbook talk about the learnification of education and deemphasizing practical skills and more academic skills.

[01:09:46] Josie Jarvis: Mom, your christening gown that you made for me was the thing that started this conversation because I was like, I clearly don't have enough memories of, accurately, I know I've seen the gown, I've held the gown, I know it, but I know it won like a blue ribbon right?

[01:09:59] Julie Jarvis: [01:10:00] So after I made it that summer, they had the Wyoming State Fair, and I, I knew it was really gorgeous, and it was a, a good entry in the fair, but then I was really surprised that it got the grand prize of the sewing. 

[01:10:17] Josie Jarvis: It got grand prize?

[01:10:18] Julie Jarvis: Yeah, it was like the best of the sewing in that state fair of 

[01:10:24] Josie Jarvis: Wyoming. Was that something because I know that Mormonism does really value some of those things. I was asking Dad was that something aspirational for you to learning that it was prized to be a practical problem solver?

[01:10:38] Josie Jarvis: Was that something that you ever internalized in your childhood trying to cultivate certain prized talents? Did fiber arts Did that ever fit into something I'm trying to develop an advanced skill set in that? 

[01:10:51] Julie Jarvis: As far as the fair goes, I after when I was junior high and high school we've, my [01:11:00] friends that sewed, we figured out that we could make money at the fair by entering a lot of things, so we would always enter a lot of, Projects that we made in the fair and, get the little premiums.

[01:11:14] Julie Jarvis: And so I was like, hadn't done it in Wyoming, but then I was like, Oh, I remember the fair, I should enter some con some of my stuff in the fair. And so then that's when, that's how that happened. 

[01:11:30] Josie Jarvis: Did you have any, did it harbor any religious significance to you in cultivating a christening gown?

[01:11:37] Josie Jarvis: What sort of motivated you to make it? 

[01:11:40] Julie Jarvis: It wasn't religious, It was just for playing doll with my new baby doll. 

[01:11:45] Josie Jarvis: Do you feel like that a little bit? That is part of our dynamic with probably some of my sensory needs. You certainly wanted to cultivate my hairstyles in a way that I was like, not [01:12:00] always.

[01:12:00] Julie Jarvis: Yeah you're, your head didn't like to get hair. 

[01:12:04] Josie Jarvis: But you made like other, you made other garments that were indicative of like period pieces. Do you think In creating those sort of costumes and like photos, was that something that was like, like in a cool aesthetic at that time?

[01:12:19] Josie Jarvis: Did you like historical things? What sort of I, I 

[01:12:23] Julie Jarvis: always liked, reading historical novels and really liked Of course, little house on the, in the big woods and, things like that from childhood on, but I always liked reading like the, the Victorian books, like with little women.

[01:12:40] Julie Jarvis: And so I think like in the, in that is like a lot of the sewing really cool techniques are from that era in the hand sewing and. So they're really the embroidery and all of that. So I think that's why I would choose projects like [01:13:00] that because the more modern clothing are more simple and they're not as.

[01:13:06] Julie Jarvis: Detailed and 

[01:13:07] Josie Jarvis: you got a lot of satisfaction then out of learning the techniques. Yeah, like the, 

[01:13:14] Julie Jarvis: the the christening gown was a, I got some books and it's called French hand sewing by machine. So it's replicating the. Tedious, long hand sewing techniques to make these, very ornate pieces, but with a machine instead.

[01:13:33] Julie Jarvis: So that's, that was very fun to teach myself. So 

[01:13:38] Josie Jarvis: yet another critical juncture, right? So a critical juncture is looking at I think the evolution of fiber arts is a fantastic way to see some of the. Social, cultural, historical, industrial evolution of international really like manufacturing and development.

[01:13:55] Josie Jarvis: The lens of fiber arts is a really great lens to grasp a really [01:14:00] tangible part of international history for you was fiber arts. It's largely a solo task that you would then do on your own and then bring to these like showings and sightings or did you ever? Yeah. 

[01:14:16] Julie Jarvis: We, there was like there was a family that I, we would get together and just have sewing days with all of the.

[01:14:26] Julie Jarvis: Kids, girls in that family and the mom were would just sew for in the summer, for long periods of days and weeks and stuff, but but there was, and I, and then I did have there was like, I had sewing in junior high and I don't think I took it again in high school, but funny story was when I got in college, I took home the home economics course college course in sewing thinking I would just get an easy a, but I [01:15:00] think that I was a little rebellious on the instructions and didn't follow.

[01:15:07] Julie Jarvis: I was, it was probably like project runway where I didn't follow the prompt exactly correctly. So I didn't get a very good grade in that class. But it was the best, 

[01:15:17] Josie Jarvis: yeah, you probably have more in common in some ways with Sarah Trail than I do because I know that she she cited that in her development she just really enjoyed learning the techniques and would love going to the quilting classes.

[01:15:32] Josie Jarvis: And she would keep up with the more advanced quilters because she liked Learning the more advanced techniques was really amusing and fun for her and then it evolved and adapted And she was similar to you too, right and turning it into kind of a business and like a way that she could yeah Sarah's arc is a good way of seeing some of the progression of neoliberalism too because she had her work really commodified right by Different 

[01:15:58] Julie Jarvis: fabric.

[01:15:59] Julie Jarvis: She's like The [01:16:00] next generation that passed me as far as that goes, but I did try to I sold for money when I was in high school for different people, different friends and stuff had me like this one family had their girls had very different one was like almost like a.

[01:16:21] Julie Jarvis: She had some birth defects on her legs, so her legs were very short. And and then another one had some really bad scoliosis, so they couldn't ever find clothes that were right at the store. So I did a lot of alterations and sewing for them during high school for money. And then I after I had your You kids, like, when I was Doing little odds and ends to make money.

[01:16:52] Julie Jarvis: I can remember sewing several people's combing costumes and mending [01:17:00] and one one of my little entrepreneurial things was called, what did I call those? They were little Little shirts for dogs or cats, but I call them pet sweats. So they were like little shirts made out of sweat, like a hoodie for dogs.

[01:17:19] Julie Jarvis: And I sold them at the vet's office. 

[01:17:22] Josie Jarvis: This is you were saying like, oh, that's the generation above you, but you can see how we're all intergenerationally connected. Cause it's mixed domestic. Matthew's a lot closer to your guy's age, maybe a little bit differentiated, but he, they were in a position where because he they didn't know that they were non binary at the time and grew up in a culture that would not allow access to selling in the same way.

[01:17:45] Josie Jarvis: But right has that similar creative. Connection and is built off of love the different layers that like crafting is something that does always connect communities and it does adapt over time. I could see mixed domestic making dog shirts and [01:18:00] sweaters. Did you know that was something?

[01:18:03] Josie Jarvis: Mom actively that grandma Ruth also did did you guys ever connect in that? Yeah, doing sewing side 

[01:18:09] Julie Jarvis: jobs? She's she had a day job of sewing in a factory for a while and by the time she you know, by the time I got to know her and You know in her 70s she was didn't really So much anymore.

[01:18:28] Julie Jarvis: I think some arthritis and some, I don't know if she really loved doing it. I feel like there's a lot of women in that era where you had to sew your own clothes that didn't really love it, like as it was a chore. And it was a task, but I don't know if they loved it. 

[01:18:47] Josie Jarvis: The interesting thing this isn't an occupational therapy textbook or a resource for an occupational therapy textbook, but that's one of the generational progressions, right?

[01:18:56] Josie Jarvis: Because if Grandma, she was born the year that occupational [01:19:00] therapy was born, At that time, those that would have been recruited into becoming field technicians, occupational therapists, occupational therapy assistants, they grew up at a time where the natural generational practice patterns were that you learned how these crafting techniques as part of your day to day life in your home, so they didn't need to be explicitly taught in an occupational therapy curriculum.

[01:19:23] Josie Jarvis: However, today, since we don't have home economics, woodshop, those crafting things, it's now a gap. In our education, a lot of people stopped offering craft based therapeutic techniques because in the 70s like the newer occupational therapists going into more of the modernism era and when that work got stigmatized, I think part of it, I mean I've actually heard they have a really cool recording in my course of one of the original OT faculty that talked about how people just that were going into the programs didn't know how to do [01:20:00] the crafts anymore and that's a big part of why they didn't do them in hospital.

[01:20:04] Josie Jarvis: I wanted to talk about how can you share a little bit about where the collecting sewing machines came from? And then I'm curious, Dad, have you had any interest in fiber arts? Or I'm imagining that your interest in the sewing machine kit is probably more mechanically related. And is that something that you've been able to bond on in retirement, because it joins two of your occupational interests, one of mechanics, and then you obviously, mom, have an occupational history with fiber arts and sewing that you're reconnecting to in retirement, and I'm just curious in a meta way of even having this reflective conversation with me and reminiscence as your daughter as you're transitioning into different phases of life what are you getting from this sort of reflecting exercise and seeing how connected you are intergenerationally with the things you do?

[01:20:53] Wade Jarvis: As far 

[01:20:54] Julie Jarvis: let me turn this a little bit better. So it's so dark. There 

[01:20:58] Wade Jarvis: is. [01:21:00] To me, the sewing machines are very interesting mechanical things. And I love to try to fix mechanical things. One of the things that's just.

[01:21:12] Wade Jarvis: They're such beautiful machines that can be bought for a song right now. They're built like something that should cost thousands. Yeah. And you can go buy one for 25. 

[01:21:27] Julie Jarvis: Yeah. One thing that I wanted to say is that I don't know if I read this. Or somebody was talking about it, but they were saying that they're really always will always have to be some kind of a sewing machine.

[01:21:45] Julie Jarvis: Because unless we stop wearing clothes, because there's machines that can create textiles, like knits or something like that, that, make leggings or something, but they still, it still [01:22:00] needs a machine that sews different fabric together, like it's not, they can never make something that's just all in one piece that is a garment so it's there's never gonna be They always, unless you do it by hand, like it could, it had, as soon as they made a sewing machine, that was a huge time saver and freed people to do other things with their extra time because everyone needs clothes and they had to weave.

[01:22:31] Julie Jarvis: The cloth and so the cloth and that was hours and hours of their life. So it's just a neat thing with now with us having all these historical machines to realize that they are the same technology and it's still just as good as it was when they first. Invented a sewing machine.

[01:22:55] Josie Jarvis: So is that so I think our family is one of those [01:23:00] ones that falls into, 'cause we have, it is always been awkward 'cause like in this textbook we're showing out that it's, it the American dream is a, is largely a myth. It's not something that is like a scientific, it's a mythology that built out many of the ways that.

[01:23:19] Josie Jarvis: America's industrial policies filled out, we're like of such a honestly, privileged cohort that I feel like the American dream was almost part of our story and as you like, as we had some hardships around moving and adapting and yet we're in this unique class where we can afford to have hobbies.

[01:23:43] Josie Jarvis: To support our passions, right? But what's always been really interesting to me about intergenerational dynamics is in our leisure and our passive time. are now doing things that our ancestors cultivated that they had to do out of [01:24:00] scarcity and survival, right? We have a goat farm. We don't need a goat farm.

[01:24:06] Julie Jarvis: Or like people go hunting for a, vacation or like a sport and they don't need to, but they do it as a sport when before it was like a, vital. Life 

[01:24:21] Josie Jarvis: necessity. And there might've been times mom, like in your childhood where you were sewing to get by or get the things that you wanted, or I'm sure there's some times where you're like, we'd use those side jobs to help, our family get what it needed at certain times, but now you guys are in retirement.

[01:24:39] Josie Jarvis: You're coding these things, but it's interesting in dad, you obviously you started as a mechanic, right? And those things, this is now an occupation, not out of necessity or fulfilling those things. How has it evolved? Now that you're relating to these activities as something for leisure or maintaining activity, like, [01:25:00] How is it helping you to adapt to have something to do now that you're not in your professional roles?

[01:25:06] Josie Jarvis: How has that been like during COVID to adapt from having prior professional roles out of obligation to now being in ones that are like a little bit more optional? 

[01:25:16] Wade Jarvis: I was very lucky that what I like to do is what I got to do for a living, I never really, I had jobs and times I didn't like it, but I never absolutely loved or hated it. And, my job changed enough that I, like the next day I was doing something I really liked and loved.

[01:25:39] Wade Jarvis: And. I still, the fun of retirement to me is I get to do it just the way I want to and when I want to. And to me, not being able to do it would be very miserable thing. 

[01:25:54] Josie Jarvis: Kind of part of who you are as a person. Now you feel like the things that [01:26:00] and it sounds like things to dad where you're saying that you from a pretty young age got to cultivate a sense of pride and satisfaction and these things that you these mechanical things that you could learn.

[01:26:12] Wade Jarvis: Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that I just really notice is that, like in my, when I was young, we really looked up to those. People that were really good at that stuff, and, like as little boys, we would talk about one guy's father or another about how great they were 

[01:26:37] Josie Jarvis: at stuff.

[01:26:39] Josie Jarvis: Did you I guess that just made me go so do you have any memories with, I'm sure you have quite a few memories of growing up with Michael, right? 

[01:26:48] Wade Jarvis: I remember, okay, the only time I ever saw Michael was in a hospital. I never knew Michael when he was at home.

[01:26:56] Josie Jarvis: Do you think that he ever got to connect with any crafting [01:27:00] opportunities or I didn't, he have some like occupations that he got to engage with caring for animals or things. Do you think anybody, 

[01:27:07] Wade Jarvis: he was supposed to be, he had, my mom talked about him having connections with animals. Like he, they found him asleep with a bowl that would have ripped other people apart.

[01:27:20] Josie Jarvis: And this for context my, my dad's oldest brother, Michael Jarvis was likely born with non speaking autism, or perhaps some sort of acquired brain injury that would result. in a non speaking disposition prior to us having awareness of what autism is. I have memories of Grandma Ruth explaining to me that she faced some judgment in the church or had difficulty including him in the community and there was maybe some ostracization from growing up.

[01:27:55] Josie Jarvis: With disability experience, I would be very curious if he, we might not ever know if [01:28:00] he ever got to engage with occupational therapy. He did 

[01:28:03] Julie Jarvis: quilts. Yeah, we had, we used to have a, a tied quilt that, he had made he had it for years. And then also Hi there. Your dad has ashtrays and clay clay things that he made.

[01:28:21] Julie Jarvis: So 

[01:28:21] Josie Jarvis: I think they did probably do that. I would like to inherit those. The form of a microchip. Yeah, I think we still have it. I think 

[01:28:29] Wade Jarvis: we still have the quilt. 

[01:28:30] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, the quilt 

[01:28:32] Julie Jarvis: forever. But if we still have it, yes. 

[01:28:37] Josie Jarvis: To me, that is an artifact, right? Like an anthropological artifact. We probably can't go and find people that could substantiate in the same way.

[01:28:45] Josie Jarvis: Maybe Kate B. Carter. I don't know if she was well aware enough of your tracking that out that somebody might have that, but this is my inner Kate B. Carter of to me, that makes me suspect since I know that he was in one of the originally [01:29:00] Funded institutional housing context during an era where it's likely that occupational therapists were employed.

[01:29:07] Josie Jarvis: We had 23 percent of occupational therapists were working in residential centers for people with disabilities, such as those that have heard me talk about Paul Johnson and his connection to disability workshops. and things. So that is likely a really classic occupational therapy intervention that he likely, which makes me just contemplate if he got opportunities to cultivate occupational satisfaction, even with a disability experience.

[01:29:39] Julie Jarvis: Your Aunt Pat might have some knowledge on that. Oh yeah, 

[01:29:43] Josie Jarvis: so I'll do that. 

[01:29:44] Julie Jarvis: I remember him tying quilts. Yeah, and is the yellow one that we used for camping? Yeah, that's it. Oh, we still have that. And there's another one that was red, white, and blue that had Big, like it was big red and blue squares [01:30:00] on one side and stripes on the 

[01:30:01] Wade Jarvis: other.

[01:30:02] Wade Jarvis: And then I have one of the clay things is down in my shop. 

[01:30:05] Josie Jarvis: Yeah. And I know those quilts. So that, so Michael got to help care for me, even though I never got to meet him. Just like all of my ancestors that cultivated a tradition. One of the things I love about quilts is you're creating something to bring comfort.

[01:30:25] Josie Jarvis: For the future and there's something hopeful and optimistic to help people get through the future and mom. Dad wants to be on the screen too. Oh, I'm sorry. It's 

[01:30:33] Wade Jarvis: all right. It's all right. The cat's bothering me to be fed. 

[01:30:38] Josie Jarvis: Oh, that's good. I and that might be I wanted to show part of I was writing this and what prompted me to reach out to you and wanting to get some more historic context on my own life is I'm writing how my life.

[01:30:52] Josie Jarvis: This textbook chapter is about the benefits and the impact of informal publishing. And I'm not sure if I'll get to [01:31:00] make the case in writing or not, but quilting is one of the most embedded artifacts of informal publishing in United States history and European history. We document really significant moments in folks lives, those ritualistic moments and traditions that get passed on across generations.

[01:31:20] Josie Jarvis: Those records that are preserved on quilts are some of the most accurate history we have. Beyond just things that were made on a printing press things that were facilitated with fabric actually preserved much longer than documents do. So that's an example of not only is this historic document and recognition.

[01:31:43] Josie Jarvis: Not only does it convey something, like a sentiment about what humans were doing occupationally, it holds data and it serves a practical function. It helps keep your family warm, it can help people literally survive through the winter. So it may never be [01:32:00] something published with impact factor in a highly prestigious journal, but it's very likely that we have an artifact that somebody that I didn't get to meet in my own life, who I think passed away before I was born.

[01:32:13] Julie Jarvis: Passed away before we got, actually got married. But I think we went to, did we see him in the hospital? Like right before he passed? I want to say. I think he did. Yeah. 

[01:32:25] Josie Jarvis: I think I met him. I think it's very likely that he might've been a haphazard victim of the Reagan era's. Defunding of the institutions and so this is another era where these critical junctures connect us across timelines, across distance, all the way in my own family line through my own folk research.

[01:32:46] Josie Jarvis: I can go back with our ancestry dad down to 800 AD. I haven't fully tried, Mom, with your line, how far we can go back. But. To me, it's even more personally significant that just in our [01:33:00] immediate meso level family unit, I never got to meet Michael, but he helped keep me warm. And it is empowering to me that your mom and dad Ruth Jarvis and oh my gosh, remind me of your dad's name.

[01:33:16] Josie Jarvis: William Jarvis, they helped be on the ground floor of creating a workers rights movement in a very tough cultural context to do that. They were pro New Deal era of valuating, valuing workers rights. Things like the Federal Writers Projects Who is it that we found out that one of your, Was it your dad that got connected with a New Deal job?

[01:33:43] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, my dad 

[01:33:44] Wade Jarvis: was part of the Seals, Seas. 

[01:33:46] Josie Jarvis: The Seabees, right? No, 

[01:33:48] Wade Jarvis: Seas. Civilian Conservation Corps, the CCC, it was things for young men to do. 

[01:33:55] Josie Jarvis: And dad, did you know when I was at Evergreen that was one of my like [01:34:00] seminal writing capstone projects was like about the federal writers projects and all of those New Deal programs?

[01:34:06] Josie Jarvis: That was one of my like if I was I forgot but see that's another thing where like I didn't know your dad was part of that program and yet that's woven into my professional academic development that some of my you know right now I'm doing academic writing. From this, and that was also about can like connecting to folk histories and building out infrastructure to help us cross borders.

[01:34:30] Josie Jarvis: This is just another example of how we're all connected across time and it was because you're people like your parents when they call it the quote unquote greatest generation that set up this infrastructure and a. I think it's called a progressive tax structure where you tax the most affluent, it used to be that the income tax rate and the industrial tax rate was above 50 to 90%, which made it possible for you, dad, even to create.

[01:34:59] Josie Jarvis: a [01:35:00] precedent for industries to offer health insurance, right? And if you didn't have health insurance in moving to Wyoming, my birth might not have been as successful, right? And if you didn't have a living wage job in Wyoming, mom, I doubt you would have had enough time off to even make that christening gown to get a blue raven.

[01:35:21] Josie Jarvis: Yeah, so really your parents made a foundation for me to come into this world and now then So many generations after that, right? You and me, mom, we got to rebuild and bond our relationship with the social justice sewing academy. And again, break some of those rules and traditions. Like you failed that home economics class.

[01:35:45] Josie Jarvis: Sarah was like, I'm willing to fail. This quilt fair in order to amplify these voices of students not following the rules. And now I'm connecting back to Michael again of connecting to Social Justice Sewing Academy and thinking how [01:36:00] do we bring these crafting opportunities back? To young adults with disabilities and undiagnosed that are still in workshops and institutional living.

[01:36:08] Josie Jarvis: So this is what I'm wanting to be an illustration, an example, an intergenerational dialogue. I learned things about my family history that I didn't know. And I'm doing this to role model for you as. students, as educators, as anyone, if you're so lucky to still have living members of your own family history, use this as a way for you to just be your own folk historian, your own occupational, start with yourself, start with your own family.

[01:36:36] Josie Jarvis: And notice that you're part of this web, this tapestry, this epistemic quilting that links all of our life class in this confluence of Kauai rivers. It's not really advanced academic theory. This is actually our day to day lives. This is how your parents adapted. I didn't realize until probably five years ago that, wow, It's probably [01:37:00] not an accident that I have a graduate level healthcare career.

[01:37:04] Josie Jarvis: My mom had a graduate level healthcare career, and my brother's a plumber. You tend to reproduce some of those practice patterns, some of those occupations that your parents mastered. They have a way of getting passed on. So I just want everybody to consider getting to know your own self and your family through an occupational lens.

[01:37:25] Josie Jarvis: It just might not only bring you closer to yourself, it might bring you closer to your own family, your own community, and your historic legacy. And hopefully in a way that you can have awareness. For healing and that can inspire you to participate in the current social justice movements of our time like you saw even though we were growing up in pretty exclusively white spaces, dad, you grew up with some stigma about, towards highly pigmented skin.

[01:37:57] Josie Jarvis: And you're connected to that, [01:38:00] and I think that even just being excluded from cultures of diversity is an occupational justice issue, even of its own, and I just want to share some gratitude to return retaining some of that bravery and some of that rebelliousness, because I do fear about how satisfied I would be in my own life if I was restricted to those gender roles presented to me in Kansas.

[01:38:23] Josie Jarvis: So it's really, I think, just important to try to connect to this legacy and to know that even if you do look at things and you find things you don't like, then that's just an opportunity to see how you can be creative occupationally and find and pivot and produce something unique and different that you can be proud of.

[01:38:41] Josie Jarvis: Just like my dad is proud of fixing machines, or my mom was proud of the christening gown that she made for me. And even if it doesn't win an award. Find a way of celebrating that in your own way. To me, even though I love your gown, now that I know that yellow quilt that I used to [01:39:00] sleep in had Michael's expression in it, man, that's more important to me than any blue ribbon.

[01:39:07] Josie Jarvis: Do you guys have any closing thoughts? 

[01:39:11] Julie Jarvis: No, this has been really fun to do. We should do it more often. 

[01:39:15] Wade Jarvis: I enjoyed myself a lot, honey, and I'm going to go feed 

[01:39:18] Julie Jarvis: the cat. Yeah, we better get off now, 

[01:39:20] Josie Jarvis: Okay, thank you so much for your time. Bye. I love you. Okay, bye.